Comments for Discover the Faith http://discoverthefaith.com Discover the Catholic Faith Sun, 18 Apr 2010 20:45:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ Comment on Marriage, Infidelity and the Bible by Sam http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/08/20/marriage-infidelity-and-the-bible/#comment-3766 Sam Sun, 18 Apr 2010 20:45:48 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=315#comment-3766 Divorce is certainly the last thing a marriage should end in, however: "If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her And if a woman has a husband ho is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace." 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 If a believer, Catholic or Christian alike, is stuck in a one way marriage where one partner is unwilling to make it work (and if you are really a Christian, you would be willing to do everything to save your marriage and treat your spouse like Christ Himself), the Christian is not bound to remain married to the unbeliever. Divorce is bad and is certainly overused as the first way out when things get hard, but in some cases, it is the best option. Divorce is certainly the last thing a marriage should end in, however:

“If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her And if a woman has a husband ho is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.” 1 Corinthians 7:12-15

If a believer, Catholic or Christian alike, is stuck in a one way marriage where one partner is unwilling to make it work (and if you are really a Christian, you would be willing to do everything to save your marriage and treat your spouse like Christ Himself), the Christian is not bound to remain married to the unbeliever. Divorce is bad and is certainly overused as the first way out when things get hard, but in some cases, it is the best option.

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Comment on Why do Catholics leave the Church? by Jamie http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/03/11/why-do-catholics-leave-the-church/#comment-3355 Jamie Thu, 28 Jan 2010 23:55:16 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-3355 There is a God. I promise you this with all my heart. Think about this: 1. if there was no God then how could the universe(containing such complex creatures as Humans) have been created? There had to have been a "1st mover" or someone or something that made "everything" become "something". 2. Jesus is never mentioned in history because people don't believe and don't want others to. They want to block him out. 3. Believing is not seeing. Even though you can't see God you must realize (if you spend enough time thinking about it) that someone has to keep things growing, us moving, the sun shining. If you give it enough thought you would be able to see this. I suggest, before you make any permanent decisions about your beliefs in God, that you talk to a priest that is part of a religious grouped called the Legionaries of Christ. They are a great community and have always been there for me and my family and friends. I think they could help you as they have always helped me and everyone I know for my whole life. You are in my prayers, God Bless There is a God. I promise you this with all my heart.
Think about this:
1. if there was no God then how could the universe(containing such complex creatures as Humans) have been created? There had to have been a “1st mover” or someone or something that made “everything” become “something”.
2. Jesus is never mentioned in history because people don’t believe and don’t want others to. They want to block him out.
3. Believing is not seeing. Even though you can’t see God you must realize (if you spend enough time thinking about it) that someone has to keep things growing, us moving, the sun shining. If you give it enough thought you would be able to see this.

I suggest, before you make any permanent decisions about your beliefs in God, that you talk to a priest that is part of a religious grouped called the Legionaries of Christ. They are a great community and have always been there for me and my family and friends. I think they could help you as they have always helped me and everyone I know for my whole life.

You are in my prayers, God Bless

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Comment on Why do Catholics leave the Church? by p160 http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/03/11/why-do-catholics-leave-the-church/#comment-3203 p160 Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:19:33 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-3203 Nothing, just pray for her, the rest is up to God. Nothing, just pray for her, the rest is up to God.

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Comment on Why do Catholics leave the Church? by Jesse http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/03/11/why-do-catholics-leave-the-church/#comment-3196 Jesse Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:51:58 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-3196 I am a catholic and proud of it. I have a sister-in-law who's boyfriend, a born again christian, convinced her to leave her catholic faith. She was a very gullible person and also really didn't understand the catholic church. When we asked to baptize our son, in preparing to do so, she discovered that she herself had never been baptized. When she found out the process for getting baptized herself, she started questioning the church's requirements of her going through such a process. When she talked to her boyfriend about it, he mislead her into believing that she didn't have to do it and talked her into leaving the church. Now she walks around like she is this holy pre-madana. I really disappointed me, and I even took it personal. By refusing God's sacraments she is turning refusing Him. She and her boyfriend are trying to instill their new ways into her two daughters. What can I tell her to convince her to return to the catholic church? She was married through the church and even baptized her two daughters. I am a catholic and proud of it. I have a sister-in-law who’s boyfriend, a born again christian, convinced her to leave her catholic faith. She was a very gullible person and also really didn’t understand the catholic church. When we asked to baptize our son, in preparing to do so, she discovered that she herself had never been baptized. When she found out the process for getting baptized herself, she started questioning the church’s requirements of her going through such a process. When she talked to her boyfriend about it, he mislead her into believing that she didn’t have to do it and talked her into leaving the church. Now she walks around like she is this holy pre-madana. I really disappointed me, and I even took it personal. By refusing God’s sacraments she is turning refusing Him. She and her boyfriend are trying to instill their new ways into her two daughters. What can I tell her to convince her to return to the catholic church? She was married through the church and even baptized her two daughters.

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Comment on Origin of the word Christian–It is in the Bible! by John http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/04/06/origin-of-the-word-christian-it-is-in-the-bible/#comment-3158 John Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:23:35 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3158 Words are just that, and what really counts is the meaning behind the words or "what the words" mean. Etymology or the history of words is important, but it's just a "history" more or less, and I know some words were chosen to have a certain meaning, often using pre-existing words or a combination of pre-existing words based on their meaning. Jesus is widly known and spoken of as both Christ and Jesus Christ and there is no difference between the two, at least to me. The argument discussed above, is not unlike saying should we call him "Jesus" (his birth name) or should we call him (the more formal/public name of) "Mesiah", and then what to call the believers. Words are just that, and what really counts is the meaning behind the words or “what the words” mean. Etymology or the history of words is important, but it’s just a “history” more or less, and I know some words were chosen to have a certain meaning, often using pre-existing words or a combination of pre-existing words based on their meaning. Jesus is widly known and spoken of as both Christ and Jesus Christ and there is no difference between the two, at least to me. The argument discussed above, is not unlike saying should we call him “Jesus” (his birth name) or should we call him (the more formal/public name of) “Mesiah”, and then what to call the believers.

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Comment on Bill Maher an Anti Catholic Hate Monger by Jack http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/04/15/bill-maher-an-anti-catholic-hate-monger/#comment-3051 Jack Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:04:05 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=147#comment-3051 Bill Maher is a comedian who has managed to trick some of the people at least some of the time that what he has to say is something we need to listen to. He is uneducated, unread and boorish and knows it. So he uses street style drive by humor to get attention. If he was still doing basic standup before he 'made it' with Politically Incorrect nobody would be paying attention to him. So he attacks what ever is current to keep him in the public's eye. Its sort of sad. His current post on his website is his thoughts on the vaccanations and H1N1 etc. Why would I care to hear out a comedian's thoughts on this or any issue. He is merely the court jester and local big top monkey. I say dance monkey dance and spare me your 'thoughts'. Bill Maher is a comedian who has managed to trick some of the people at least some of the time that what he has to say is something we need to listen to. He is uneducated, unread and boorish and knows it. So he uses street style drive by humor to get attention. If he was still doing basic standup before he ‘made it’ with Politically Incorrect nobody would be paying attention to him. So he attacks what ever is current to keep him in the public’s eye. Its sort of sad. His current post on his website is his thoughts on the vaccanations and H1N1 etc. Why would I care to hear out a comedian’s thoughts on this or any issue. He is merely the court jester and local big top monkey. I say dance monkey dance and spare me your ‘thoughts’.

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Comment on Why do Catholics leave the Church? by Michael http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/03/11/why-do-catholics-leave-the-church/#comment-2805 Michael Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:27:07 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-2805 Dear Nicki, I felt some pain reading your comments.....sadly you will need to get an annulment before you can get married in the Catholic Church. I wondered why you felt the need to <b>"marry"</b> your present partner, knowing that your marriage wouldn't be recognised by the Church. I imagine, also, there is the added guilt, that you are living in sin (adultery) as far as the Church is concerned. I suggest you live apart from your husband or refrain from any <b>"physical"</b> contact until you get married in the Catholic Church...on the condition you get your annulment. Remember, Nicki, Jesus Christ, comes before everything. Dear Nicki,
I felt some pain reading your comments…..sadly you will need to get an annulment before you can get married in the Catholic Church.

I wondered why you felt the need to “marry” your present partner, knowing that your marriage wouldn’t be recognised by the Church.

I imagine, also, there is the added guilt, that you are living in sin (adultery) as far as the Church is concerned.

I suggest you live apart from your husband or refrain from any “physical” contact until you get married in the Catholic Church…on the condition you get your annulment.

Remember, Nicki, Jesus Christ, comes before everything.

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Comment on Why do Catholics leave the Church? by Nicki http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/03/11/why-do-catholics-leave-the-church/#comment-2803 Nicki Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:01:49 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-2803 I am 29 years old and an active Catholic. I try very hard to continue my faith in our Chuch. But lately, I have been struggling. I understand and appreciate our rules with marriage and divorce. As an immature 20 year-old, I married. I knew it was wrong. However, my parents had sunk their last cent into this wedding; I was terrified and ashamed to back out. I feel that I sealed my fate that day. We separated 7 months later, divorced 18 months later. I've since remarried a fellow Catholic, in a civil ceremony. We have two children. We are involved in several ministries, which we love. But, we cannot receive the Body of Christ. I am saddened and ashamed every Sunday. My first attempt at an anullment was a bust. It seems now, that I may have a case... if I pay $500. Can't I be a faithful Catholic, who made a mistake? Can't I repent? Will I forever wait in the choir loft, as my fellow choir members file in for Communion? Another thing... a few times a year, we visit friends from out of state. They are Christian, but non-demoninatinal. As guests in their home, we always oblige and go with them to thier church. Besides, the nearest Catholic church is in a neighboring town. This little Christian church is filled with people eager and happy to be there. They sing!! I try taking the good parts of their church and bring them to ours. I'm driven to bring life into our congregation. I don't know... I could use some advice. Thank you. I am 29 years old and an active Catholic. I try very hard to continue my faith in our Chuch. But lately, I have been struggling. I understand and appreciate our rules with marriage and divorce. As an immature 20 year-old, I married. I knew it was wrong. However, my parents had sunk their last cent into this wedding; I was terrified and ashamed to back out. I feel that I sealed my fate that day. We separated 7 months later, divorced 18 months later. I’ve since remarried a fellow Catholic, in a civil ceremony. We have two children. We are involved in several ministries, which we love. But, we cannot receive the Body of Christ. I am saddened and ashamed every Sunday. My first attempt at an anullment was a bust. It seems now, that I may have a case… if I pay $500. Can’t I be a faithful Catholic, who made a mistake? Can’t I repent? Will I forever wait in the choir loft, as my fellow choir members file in for Communion?

Another thing… a few times a year, we visit friends from out of state. They are Christian, but non-demoninatinal. As guests in their home, we always oblige and go with them to thier church. Besides, the nearest Catholic church is in a neighboring town. This little Christian church is filled with people eager and happy to be there. They sing!! I try taking the good parts of their church and bring them to ours. I’m driven to bring life into our congregation. I don’t know…

I could use some advice. Thank you.

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Comment on Why do Catholics leave the Church? by p160 http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/03/11/why-do-catholics-leave-the-church/#comment-2783 p160 Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:54:22 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-2783 I imagine most people leave the Church because they are still attracted to worldly things. One has to be filled with the Spirit! http://youhearitssound.blogspot.com/ I imagine most people leave the Church because they are still attracted to worldly things.

One has to be filled with the Spirit!

http://youhearitssound.blogspot.com/

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Comment on Father Phleger suspended by Catholic Church by Tom http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/06/04/father-phleger-suspended-by-catholic-church/#comment-2645 Tom Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:05:16 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=222#comment-2645 The good father is a terrorist at heart. He also approves and supports abortion, that is perticipating in the evil of abortion. His Bishop failed remove him because the Bishop feared the black commmunity would believe he is a racist. Even the U.S. Bishops turned their back on the unborn. "It's matter of conscience" who you vote for. They know voting for Obama is perticipating in the act of abortion, but they were to worried about being called racist because Obama is black. Fleger and the Bishops will one day have to face the the 3000 babies who die each day through the evil of abortion. No, social justice is not more important than life, from conception to natural death. May God have mercy on their souls. The good father is a terrorist at heart. He also approves and supports abortion, that is perticipating in the evil of abortion. His Bishop failed remove him because the Bishop feared the black commmunity would believe he is a racist. Even the U.S. Bishops turned their back on the unborn. “It’s matter of conscience” who you vote for. They know voting for Obama is perticipating in the act of abortion, but they were to worried about being called racist because Obama is black. Fleger and the Bishops will one day have to face the the 3000 babies who die each day through the evil of abortion. No, social justice is not more important than life, from conception to natural death. May God have mercy on their souls.

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Comment on Update on Professor Myers desecration of Eucharist by Joe http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/07/26/update-on-professor-myers-desecration-of-eucharist/#comment-2636 Joe Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:45:08 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=281#comment-2636 Our you can see the good Mike. The Catholic Church alone is the world leader in charity and education. Not counting all the other religons. The Church is also the only ones helping in Africa while you stand here and complain. Try to help feed millions everyday like the Church does. Also the AIDS calims are not try. The Philippines are 90% catholic and there is .01% AIDS. abstinence is the only way to stop it. Also the Africans are people we must educate and help. Not animals we should hand condoms to and hope they use them right. They are Gods souls too. Also the religion wars were started by fanitcs like Bin Laden. He follows his own Gods not Islam in its true form. Our you can see the good Mike. The Catholic Church alone is the world leader in charity and education. Not counting all the other religons. The Church is also the only ones helping in Africa while you stand here and complain. Try to help feed millions everyday like the Church does. Also the AIDS calims are not try. The Philippines are 90% catholic and there is .01% AIDS. abstinence is the only way to stop it. Also the Africans are people we must educate and help. Not animals we should hand condoms to and hope they use them right. They are Gods souls too. Also the religion wars were started by fanitcs like Bin Laden. He follows his own Gods not Islam in its true form.

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Comment on Saturday or Sunday worship? by cd http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/07/21/saturday-or-sunday-worship/#comment-2460 cd Wed, 27 May 2009 01:43:24 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=273#comment-2460 Lori, No problem. I hope this was helpful for you on your journey. God bless, Chris Lori,

No problem. I hope this was helpful for you on your journey.

God bless,

Chris

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Comment on Origin of the word Christian–It is in the Bible! by Israel http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/04/06/origin-of-the-word-christian-it-is-in-the-bible/#comment-2432 Israel Wed, 20 May 2009 17:55:27 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-2432 NOWHERE in the Scriptures will you find Yahweh or the Messiah refer to HIS children as being Christians. HE calls them Israel, always has, always will. You are either Israelite or a righteous Gentile. I can go deeper and explain further, but I wont argue with anyone on this issue. NOWHERE in the Scriptures will you find Yahweh
or the Messiah refer to HIS children as being
Christians. HE calls them Israel, always has, always will.
You are either Israelite or a righteous Gentile. I can go
deeper and explain further, but I wont argue with
anyone on this issue.

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Comment on Saturday or Sunday worship? by Lori Mc Cullough http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/07/21/saturday-or-sunday-worship/#comment-2279 Lori Mc Cullough Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:12:38 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=273#comment-2279 Thank you for your answer...I am on a journey....I don't want to believe any thing false about God. Thanks again, Lori Thank you for your answer…I am on a journey….I don’t want to believe any thing false about God. Thanks again, Lori

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Comment on Origin of the word Christian–It is in the Bible! by cd http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/04/06/origin-of-the-word-christian-it-is-in-the-bible/#comment-2051 cd Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:03:06 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-2051 Marcus With all due respect, I do realize that you don't necessarily believe all these cut and paste articles are full of speculation and really do not answer any questions. The early Christians were not Gnostic, this can be easily disproved by reviewing the early sources. In the next week or so I will review what you have written and respond in more detail. Marcus
With all due respect, I do realize that you don’t necessarily believe all these cut and paste articles are full of speculation and really do not answer any questions. The early Christians were not Gnostic, this can be easily disproved by reviewing the early sources. In the next week or so I will review what you have written and respond in more detail.

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Comment on Contact Us by Leonie http://discoverthefaith.com/contact-discover-the-faith/#comment-2050 Leonie Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:24:42 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?page_id=160#comment-2050 Can you please update your calender and readings to reflect 2009 Can you please update your calender and readings to reflect 2009

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Comment on Origin of the word Christian–It is in the Bible! by Marcus http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/04/06/origin-of-the-word-christian-it-is-in-the-bible/#comment-1922 Marcus Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:02:42 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-1922 You guys have many different beliefs about the word Christian. I've read just about everyone's view on the term. The reason I'm even researching it is because I've been taught that the word has a negative association to it in relation to its original meaning. So I'm studying to find the true meaning behind this word. I ran across some info from another website will research that I'll paste on here for you guys to read... I thought i was pretty interesting. I am in no way associating any agreement to any information presented by the website in which I'll paste or by the arguments presented on this site because they seem too shallow. Everyone is basically claiming not to be scholars... Okay that's fine and great but I think this topic does deserve proper attention for truth sake. Denying all previous beliefs and person perspectives about the word and getting a fresh understanding either proving or disproving its validity. This is something I intend on doing because Ignorance and Passivity causes lack and confusion. I think that everyone made some really good points on the plus and negative side of the word Christian. I CALL MYSELF A SON OF GOD not as equal to his son Yashua, but as a joint heir to the thrown. reckoning him as my Father. WONDERFUL JOB PEOPLE... "pasted article" THE ORIGIN OF THE WORD "CHRISTIAN" The historical records about Marcion's contact with Gnostics is very meager. We learn that Marcion is a Gnostic not only by the testimony of the Early Church Fathers that opposed his religious beliefs but from the collection of documents that originally comprised the First New Testament. According to a reasonable interpretation of the chronological evidence, Polycarp (while a bishop of Smyrna) was writing in AD 115 about the extensiveness of Marcion's teachings in Asia Minor (Pol. Phil. 2:18,19). What we fail to realize is the extensiveness of Marcion's religious beliefs as shared with other believers who constituted the "first" Christians. The "first" Christians were Gnostic Christians and not of the later "Western Christianity". About the year AD 138, Justin Martyr (a resident of Rome) wrote about Marcion's unusually long and effective teaching career. Understand that the polemics of the Early Church Fathers are often harsh and untrue regarding those that they attacked as being "heretics". That being said we need to listen closely to what is said by Justin Martyr in and around 150 C.E. Justin is known as the first Christian apologist, called also Justin the Philosopher. Born in Samaria of pagan parents, he studied philosophy, and after his conversion in Ephesus to Christianity at about the age of 38, he went from place to place trying to convert men of learning by philosophical argument. He opened a school of Christian philosophy at Rome, where he and some disciples were finally martyred under Marcus Aurelius for practicing an unauthorized religion. Of his writings (in Greek), only two undisputed works remain, the Apology (with an appendix called the Second Apology) and the Dialogue. Now let us listen very carefully to what Justin has to say. "And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus, who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator. And he, by the aid of devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works. All who take these opinions from these men are, as we before said, called Christian" (Justin's [First] Apology. I.26. ANF. vol. 1. p. 171). The reason for dating this statement to the year AD 138 is discoverable in Blackman's study (Marcion and His Influence,. p. 21). What you should take notice of is not that Justin had an extreme dislike for those that did not agree with his religious belief system but the fact that those who revered Marcion and were like Gnostic believers in "the Christ" were recognized as early as 140 C.E. as "Christians" even by their opponents. What we have here is an "in-house" debate and disagreement on just who this "Christ" really is. We call this Christology today. One of the most startling things in Justin's unfavorable review of Marcion is the surprising appearance of the word "Christians" as a commonly used title to describe the members of Marcionite churches. By AD 138, Marcionites could be found in "every nation." THE CHRISTIAN "CHRIST" OR "CHRESTOS"? At this early time, there is some confusion about the correct spelling for "Christian." It is known that Marcion preferred to call Jesus the "Chrestos" (which means the Kind or Helpful One). The spelling for "Chrestos" (the Good one) is derived from an ancient inscription to a Marcionite synagogue (Daniel Jon Mahar, English Reconstruction and Translation of Marcion's version of To The Galatians, p. 1). Let us take note of the fact that those "orthodox" believers who were more allied with the Roman Ecclesia and who were opposed to Gnostic Christianity were already at this time proudly bearing the title "Catholic." By the time when The Acts of the Apostles was formally published about the middle of the Second Century, the word "Christian" had become very popular as a designation for believers in Jesus. Because of this, there was needed some kind of explanation about its origin. We are all familiar with the word "Christian" but it will surprise you to know that this is not the designation by which the earliest believers in "the Christ" were know: Not many know that the Sinaiticus manuscript has a peculiar way of spelling the word Christian. Everywhere this title appears, that Fourth Century manuscript spells it "Chrestian". Vaticanus, a manuscript of the same age, utilizes a slightly transitional spelling "Chresistian". This surely is strong evidence about Marcion's real role. Not only is Marcion's original spelling for "Christian" still evident in such important manuscripts, this also indicates directly the strength and extent of Marcionite effects on the entire Christian community, including its scholars; even as late as the fourth century!!! There is still some bifurcation between the words "Catholic" and "Christian" today. LET HISTORY SPEAK TO US AND LET US LISTEN CAREFULLY In AD 49, Rome experienced disturbances in the Jewish community that had been provoked by the preaching of "Chrestus" (based on the account of Suetonius in J. Steven's New Eusebius. no. 2, p. 1). Acts 18:2 2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. (KJV) It seems notable at this time (C.E. 49) that "Jews" in general were expelled, and not simply followers of "Chrestus" or "Chrestians." Answer for yourself: Why is this important and what should we learn from this? The reason why all the Jews were expelled from Rome at this very early date is that the Roman authorities did not or could not clearly differentiate between the Christians and the Jews (Wilson, Marcion… p. 25). It was over disturbances involving this "Chrestus" that Rome expelled them from the city. Notice how early this is; we are talking about 49 C.E. and the existence of "Chrestus" as this early date. If we can come to understand just who or what "Chrestus" refers to at this early date then we will have an accurate picture of what these Jews or earliest believers actually had "faith in" that prompted Rome to rid themselves of them. The presence of the Gentile title "Chrestus" in Rome implies also the presence of an accompanying Gentile-oriented religious belief as well. So we are actually looking at both Jews and Gentiles who had a faith concerning "Chrestus". Nobody knows how the Church of Rome was established. Neither the Book of Acts nor the writings of the early Fathers explain how Christianity arrived in Rome. As has been discovered, Suetonius, the Roman historian, mentions the expulsion of followers of Chrestus from Rome, during the time of Emperor Claudius c. AD 40-50. This indicates that a flourishing Christian community existed in Rome, even before Paul went to Corinth or Ephesus in AD 49. By the time of Nero (AD 54-68), the Christian community in Rome was already of a considerable size. Answer for yourself: How did Christianity reach Rome at that very early date and before Paul? Could this "Christianity" we see be something other than what we have come to understand Christianity today? You bet it was. Long before Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles ever went to Rome we find there in that city a belief in "Chrestus" and the Divine Logos within each person which unites him with God. What we find here is that we have in fact Jewish and Gentile Gnosticism instead of a historical Jesus as a form of the later expression of Christianity in Rome which transforms this spiritual " Christ" into a historical Christ as previously seen in the Second New Testament. This is further testimony that the earliest expression of what we call "Christianity" was not a faith in a historical Jesus or a historical Christ but one in the Spiritual Mediation of the "Chrestus". This Gnostic faith held in common a belief that within all men dwelled God's Spirit whom they called "Chrestus". We call it "the Christ" today. But understand back then they did not see nor understand this "Chrestus" to be a human being as we have come to understand it today. In Vaticanus and Sinaiticus it is not possible to discover how Jesus' main title (Christ) was spelled. A scribal device called "nomina sacra" was employed as a emphatic technique to highlight special words. The highlighted words were shortened. Because of this, the scribes left out the main vowel every time. Most Greek editions restore the vowel as an iota ("i"). By making a back formation from the Sinaiticus' "Chrestian," the word "Chrestos" appears as the proper title for belief in Jesus. Through this logical method, it can be reasonably argued that Jesus' normal title should be fully spelled "Chrestos" throughout Sinaiticus. Besides the two oldest Greek New Testaments from the Fourth Century, and in addition to the oldest dated church inscription (C.E. 318), there is an abundance of ancient testimony that shows that the title "Chrestus" for Jesus was very popular among "common" Christians. As if we don't have enough testimony already to see without a doubt that the earliest Jewish and Gentile believers had a faith in "Chrestus" we only have to look at the two titles "Chrestus" or "Chrestian" which we find also recorded in the following written sources: Tertullian (C.E. 210), The Eighth Sibyl (C.E. 200) Theophilos of Antioch (C.E. 170) Marcus (C.E. 145) Apocalypse of Elijah (AD 100), Suetonius (AD 124) and Tacitus (AD 116). There is even a disputed inscription (now lost) from Pompei (AD 79) that is believed to have contained a reference to this lost title of Jesus. The ruling theologians of orthodoxy denounced the spelling "Chrestus" as based on ignorance. Lactantius (AD 310) said: "The ignorant are accustomed to call Him 'Chrestus'" (ANF. Vol. 7, p. 106). Answer for yourself: But was it just ignorance or could "Chrestus" have a special meaning that we are overlooking? Let us now take note that the Gnostic Marcion, who as typical Gnostic believers did not believe in a human Christ but a Docetic Christ, used the term "Chrestus" in the oldest New Testament which he collected and produced. The theological reason for the Orthodox scribes carefully and stealthily introducing the word "Christ" as Jesus' main title for "Chrestus" is explainable for several different reasons: First they were obscuring the fact that the earliest believers in the "Chrestus" understood this as a Divine religious concept only and not as a human being. Secondarily we look to the etymology of the word "Christ". "Christ" in Greek means "anointed" (or royal). This meaning matches that of the Hebrew word "Messiah." The Church Fathers preferred their understanding of this Divine Mediator designated by them as the historical Jesus to be known as Israel's coming King. The Jews of course reject this concept and view and maintain even today that the true Hebrew Scriptures have not been fulfilled and they yet await the coming of a human anointed Messiah from the line of David. Paul put his Gnostic Christ Jesus in the forefront of his preaching, and they [the early Gentile churches] can hardly have done otherwise. It is no accident, indeed, that over time the true understanding of this Divine Mediator as a Divine Concept as the indwelling Logos as held and taught by the earliest Jewish and Gentile believers to whom we look as the earliest Christians were really "Chrestus-ians" instead. They held completely opposite views concerning this Divine Mediator between God and man than what the later "orthodox" Roman Christians would hold as seen when they changed the name of "Chrestus" to "Christ" and in so doing changed the Gnostic "Christ" into a human being whom is known today as "the Christ" and not "Chrestus". We lose completely by changing this name the original concepts of the Logos, Sophia, Hochmah, Holy Spirit, etc. Again over time and the manipulation of the words "Chrestus" and "Christ" the adherents of the new faith were now called and recognized as Christians" (Arthur Cushman McGiffert, The God of the Early Christians, p. 44). You guys have many different beliefs about the word Christian. I’ve read just about everyone’s view on the term. The reason I’m even researching it is because I’ve been taught that the word has a negative association to it in relation to its original meaning. So I’m studying to find the true meaning behind this word. I ran across some info from another website will research that I’ll paste on here for you guys to read… I thought i was pretty interesting. I am in no way associating any agreement to any information presented by the website in which I’ll paste or by the arguments presented on this site because they seem too shallow. Everyone is basically claiming not to be scholars… Okay that’s fine and great but I think this topic does deserve proper attention for truth sake. Denying all previous beliefs and person perspectives about the word and getting a fresh understanding either proving or disproving its validity. This is something I intend on doing because Ignorance and Passivity causes lack and confusion. I think that everyone made some really good points on the plus and negative side of the word Christian. I CALL MYSELF A SON OF GOD not as equal to his son Yashua, but as a joint heir to the thrown. reckoning him as my Father. WONDERFUL JOB PEOPLE…
“pasted article”
THE ORIGIN OF THE WORD “CHRISTIAN”
The historical records about Marcion’s contact with Gnostics is very meager. We learn that Marcion is a Gnostic not only by the testimony of the Early Church Fathers that opposed his religious beliefs but from the collection of documents that originally comprised the First New Testament.

According to a reasonable interpretation of the chronological evidence, Polycarp (while a bishop of Smyrna) was writing in AD 115 about the extensiveness of Marcion’s teachings in Asia Minor (Pol. Phil. 2:18,19). What we fail to realize is the extensiveness of Marcion’s religious beliefs as shared with other believers who constituted the “first” Christians. The “first” Christians were Gnostic Christians and not of the later “Western Christianity”.

About the year AD 138, Justin Martyr (a resident of Rome) wrote about Marcion’s unusually long and effective teaching career. Understand that the polemics of the Early Church Fathers are often harsh and untrue regarding those that they attacked as being “heretics”. That being said we need to listen closely to what is said by Justin Martyr in and around 150 C.E. Justin is known as the first Christian apologist, called also Justin the Philosopher. Born in Samaria of pagan parents, he studied philosophy, and after his conversion in Ephesus to Christianity at about the age of 38, he went from place to place trying to convert men of learning by philosophical argument. He opened a school of Christian philosophy at Rome, where he and some disciples were finally martyred under Marcus Aurelius for practicing an unauthorized religion. Of his writings (in Greek), only two undisputed works remain, the Apology (with an appendix called the Second Apology) and the Dialogue.

Now let us listen very carefully to what Justin has to say.

“And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus, who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator. And he, by the aid of devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works. All who take these opinions from these men are, as we before said, called Christian” (Justin’s [First] Apology. I.26. ANF. vol. 1. p. 171). The reason for dating this statement to the year AD 138 is discoverable in Blackman’s study (Marcion and His Influence,. p. 21).

What you should take notice of is not that Justin had an extreme dislike for those that did not agree with his religious belief system but the fact that those who revered Marcion and were like Gnostic believers in “the Christ” were recognized as early as 140 C.E. as “Christians” even by their opponents. What we have here is an “in-house” debate and disagreement on just who this “Christ” really is. We call this Christology today.

One of the most startling things in Justin’s unfavorable review of Marcion is the surprising appearance of the word “Christians” as a commonly used title to describe the members of Marcionite churches. By AD 138, Marcionites could be found in “every nation.”

THE CHRISTIAN “CHRIST” OR “CHRESTOS”?
At this early time, there is some confusion about the correct spelling for “Christian.” It is known that Marcion preferred to call Jesus the “Chrestos” (which means the Kind or Helpful One). The spelling for “Chrestos” (the Good one) is derived from an ancient inscription to a Marcionite synagogue (Daniel Jon Mahar, English Reconstruction and Translation of Marcion’s version of To The Galatians, p. 1).

Let us take note of the fact that those “orthodox” believers who were more allied with the Roman Ecclesia and who were opposed to Gnostic Christianity were already at this time proudly bearing the title “Catholic.” By the time when The Acts of the Apostles was formally published about the middle of the Second Century, the word “Christian” had become very popular as a designation for believers in Jesus. Because of this, there was needed some kind of explanation about its origin.

We are all familiar with the word “Christian” but it will surprise you to know that this is not the designation by which the earliest believers in “the Christ” were know:

Not many know that the Sinaiticus manuscript has a peculiar way of spelling the word Christian. Everywhere this title appears, that Fourth Century manuscript spells it “Chrestian”.
Vaticanus, a manuscript of the same age, utilizes a slightly transitional spelling “Chresistian”.
This surely is strong evidence about Marcion’s real role. Not only is Marcion’s original spelling for “Christian” still evident in such important manuscripts, this also indicates directly the strength and extent of Marcionite effects on the entire Christian community, including its scholars; even as late as the fourth century!!!

There is still some bifurcation between the words “Catholic” and “Christian” today.

LET HISTORY SPEAK TO US AND LET US LISTEN CAREFULLY
In AD 49, Rome experienced disturbances in the Jewish community that had been provoked by the preaching of “Chrestus” (based on the account of Suetonius in J. Steven’s New Eusebius. no. 2, p. 1).

Acts 18:2 2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. (KJV)

It seems notable at this time (C.E. 49) that “Jews” in general were expelled, and not simply followers of “Chrestus” or “Chrestians.”

Answer for yourself: Why is this important and what should we learn from this?

The reason why all the Jews were expelled from Rome at this very early date is that the Roman authorities did not or could not clearly differentiate between the Christians and the Jews (Wilson, Marcion… p. 25). It was over disturbances involving this “Chrestus” that Rome expelled them from the city. Notice how early this is; we are talking about 49 C.E. and the existence of “Chrestus” as this early date. If we can come to understand just who or what “Chrestus” refers to at this early date then we will have an accurate picture of what these Jews or earliest believers actually had “faith in” that prompted Rome to rid themselves of them. The presence of the Gentile title “Chrestus” in Rome implies also the presence of an accompanying Gentile-oriented religious belief as well. So we are actually looking at both Jews and Gentiles who had a faith concerning “Chrestus”.

Nobody knows how the Church of Rome was established. Neither the Book of Acts nor the writings of the early Fathers explain how Christianity arrived in Rome. As has been discovered, Suetonius, the Roman historian, mentions the expulsion of followers of Chrestus from Rome, during the time of Emperor Claudius c. AD 40-50. This indicates that a flourishing Christian community existed in Rome, even before Paul went to Corinth or Ephesus in AD 49. By the time of Nero (AD 54-68), the Christian community in Rome was already of a considerable size.

Answer for yourself: How did Christianity reach Rome at that very early date and before Paul? Could this “Christianity” we see be something other than what we have come to understand Christianity today? You bet it was. Long before Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles ever went to Rome we find there in that city a belief in “Chrestus” and the Divine Logos within each person which unites him with God. What we find here is that we have in fact Jewish and Gentile Gnosticism instead of a historical Jesus as a form of the later expression of Christianity in Rome which transforms this spiritual ”
Christ” into a historical Christ as previously seen in the Second New Testament. This is further testimony that the earliest expression of what we call “Christianity” was not a faith in a historical Jesus or a historical Christ but one in the Spiritual Mediation of the “Chrestus”. This Gnostic faith held in common a belief that within all men dwelled God’s Spirit whom they called “Chrestus”. We call it “the Christ” today. But understand back then they did not see nor understand this “Chrestus” to be a human being as we have come to understand it today.

In Vaticanus and Sinaiticus it is not possible to discover how Jesus’ main title (Christ) was spelled. A scribal device called “nomina sacra” was employed as a emphatic technique to highlight special words. The highlighted words were shortened. Because of this, the scribes left out the main vowel every time. Most Greek editions restore the vowel as an iota (“i”).

By making a back formation from the Sinaiticus’ “Chrestian,” the word “Chrestos” appears as the proper title for belief in Jesus. Through this logical method, it can be reasonably argued that Jesus’ normal title should be fully spelled “Chrestos” throughout Sinaiticus.

Besides the two oldest Greek New Testaments from the Fourth Century, and in addition to the oldest dated church inscription (C.E. 318), there is an abundance of ancient testimony that shows that the title “Chrestus” for Jesus was very popular among “common” Christians.

As if we don’t have enough testimony already to see without a doubt that the earliest Jewish and Gentile believers had a faith in “Chrestus” we only have to look at the two titles “Chrestus” or “Chrestian” which we find also recorded in the following written sources:

Tertullian (C.E. 210), The Eighth Sibyl (C.E. 200)
Theophilos of Antioch (C.E. 170)
Marcus (C.E. 145) Apocalypse of Elijah (AD 100),
Suetonius (AD 124) and
Tacitus (AD 116).
There is even a disputed inscription (now lost) from Pompei (AD 79) that is believed to have contained a reference to this lost title of Jesus.

The ruling theologians of orthodoxy denounced the spelling “Chrestus” as based on ignorance. Lactantius (AD 310) said: “The ignorant are accustomed to call Him ‘Chrestus’” (ANF. Vol. 7, p. 106).

Answer for yourself: But was it just ignorance or could “Chrestus” have a special meaning that we are overlooking?

Let us now take note that the Gnostic Marcion, who as typical Gnostic believers did not believe in a human Christ but a Docetic Christ, used the term “Chrestus” in the oldest New Testament which he collected and produced.

The theological reason for the Orthodox scribes carefully and stealthily introducing the word “Christ” as Jesus’ main title for “Chrestus” is explainable for several different reasons:

First they were obscuring the fact that the earliest believers in the “Chrestus” understood this as a Divine religious concept only and not as a human being.
Secondarily we look to the etymology of the word “Christ”. “Christ” in Greek means “anointed” (or royal). This meaning matches that of the Hebrew word “Messiah.” The Church Fathers preferred their understanding of this Divine Mediator designated by them as the historical Jesus to be known as Israel’s coming King. The Jews of course reject this concept and view and maintain even today that the true Hebrew Scriptures have not been fulfilled and they yet await the coming of a human anointed Messiah from the line of David.
Paul put his Gnostic Christ Jesus in the forefront of his preaching, and they [the early Gentile churches] can hardly have done otherwise. It is no accident, indeed, that over time the true understanding of this Divine Mediator as a Divine Concept as the indwelling Logos as held and taught by the earliest Jewish and Gentile believers to whom we look as the earliest Christians were really “Chrestus-ians” instead. They held completely opposite views concerning this Divine Mediator between God and man than what the later “orthodox” Roman Christians would hold as seen when they changed the name of “Chrestus” to “Christ” and in so doing changed the Gnostic “Christ” into a human being whom is known today as “the Christ” and not “Chrestus”. We lose completely by changing this name the original concepts of the Logos, Sophia, Hochmah, Holy Spirit, etc. Again over time and the manipulation of the words “Chrestus” and “Christ” the adherents of the new faith were now called and recognized as Christians” (Arthur Cushman McGiffert, The God of the Early Christians, p. 44).

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Comment on Daily Mass Readings by cd http://discoverthefaith.com/daily-mass-readings/#comment-1848 cd Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:54:16 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?page_id=212#comment-1848 Hazel, Thanks for the feedback. The readings should be back shortly. Hazel,

Thanks for the feedback. The readings should be back shortly.

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Comment on Daily Mass Readings by Hazel Olis http://discoverthefaith.com/daily-mass-readings/#comment-1795 Hazel Olis Sun, 15 Feb 2009 03:07:41 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?page_id=212#comment-1795 good day..i was just wondering how come your daily readings is not updated anymore. i hope you'll continue to provide the daily readings, i would really appreciate it. God bless. good day..i was just wondering how come your daily readings is not updated anymore. i hope you’ll continue to provide the daily readings, i would really appreciate it. God bless.

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Comment on Eucharist Desecration Newest Hate Crime Fad by Wind0g http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/07/10/eucharist-desecration-newest-hate-crime-fad/#comment-1640 Wind0g Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:25:02 +0000 http://discoverthefaith.wordpress.com/?p=258#comment-1640 Fellow Catholics, have you lost faith!? The body of Christ can surely resist any desecration by a mere man! I have faith, that when he attempts to even desecrate even one of his holy organs, the magical body/food will FLY away! And it will viciously attack and smite him with its supernatural godly powers! So do not worry, let god do his thing. God is letting this happen, who are we to interfere? Fellow Catholics, have you lost faith!?

The body of Christ can surely resist any desecration by a mere man! I have faith, that when he attempts to even desecrate even one of his holy organs, the magical body/food will FLY away! And it will viciously attack and smite him with its supernatural godly powers! So do not worry, let god do his thing. God is letting this happen, who are we to interfere?

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