Discover the Faith

Recently I have had a long discussion with the Cornish Evangelist, Billy Bolitho. Mr. Bolitho has a unique perspective on scripture and the authority of the Church. He believes that I am leading the readers of this blog into error. I just want to give the latest round of comments from Mr. Bolitho and my response. Mr. Bolitho lead himself into trouble with his last round of comments that make very suspect everything he has said. I will grant that he has found an element of truth in what he says but he goes on his own with his sometimes bizarre misinterpretations of the Bible. Some of the things he says are true but he stretches the context to the limit. If you want to see the whole conversation click this link.

Here is the latest round of comments. Mr. Bolitho makes a glaring mistake by saying that the Letter of Clement was universally accepted by the Apostles Peter, James, Paul and John. The problem is that three of the Apostles went on to their reward years before it was written!

Mr. Bolitho

You said:

St. Clement letter was accepted as scripture by Paul, Peter, James, John. You said that yourself. this make it universally accepted as Holy scripture.
I am highly concerned that you may be in danger of leading many into error.
I have not made false accusations and claims I am just trying to inform you of the truth
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My Reply is :
Scholars indicate that Peter and Paul were martyred in 64 or 67 A.D during the reign of Nero.

James died around 62 AD

The First Letter of Clement to the Corinthians, the only legitimate writing of Clement, was not written until at the earliest 80 A.D.

How on earth could James, Peter and Paul have accepted the First letter of Clement as scripture? With all due respect, you are grasping at straws and loosing credibility with each post.

The only Apostle that was alive at the time the letter was written was John and there is no evidence one way or another if he accepted the letter as scripture. Have you even read the letter?

This letter is commonly cited by Catholics, such as my self, as the earliest example of the primacy of the Roman Church in the first century.

Do you believe that you should submit to a priest/presbyter? Clement did!

You, therefore, who laid a foundation of the rebellion, submit to the presbyters and be chastened to repentance, bending your knees in the spirit of humility. (1 Clement 57:1)

Would you heed the directions of the Bishop of Rome if he commanded you to submit to priest/presbyters? Clement was the Bishop of Rome. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome.

Do you have priests/presbyters that offer sacrifices. Clement wrote that the Church during his time did. This is the sacrifice of the Mass! The Catholic Church offers sacrifice. Very Catholic!

“Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices. Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release” (Letter to the Corinthians 44:4–5 [A.D. 80]).

I hope that you reflect on this. The Letter of Clement was not universally accepted as scripture. The Church has the authority to discern what is inspired scripture, what does not qualify as inspired scripture and what writings are spurious. Of course the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Since you consider The First Letter of Clement to the Corinthians as scripture, I would suggest you follow its directives and submit to the Bishop and Priests/Presbyters in the diocese you live in.

God Bless,

Chris

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Update 8-20-09:

I want to clarify something about the Epistle of Clement. I was just reading Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilina and he indicates that some scholars, including those who are Catholic, believe that the letter of Clement may have been written before 70 AD. Even if this is true the letter itself does indicate that Peter and Paul were already martyred. Below is an excerpt from the letter that shows just that. Most of my sources had indicated that it was written no earlier than 80 AD. When I find information that may not agree with what I have said, I have no problem showing it. The key here is that the letter itself attests to the fact that Peter and Paul were already martyred for their faith before the letter was written. Historians also indicate that James was martyred before Peter and Paul.
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CHAPTER 5 — NO LESS EVILS HAVE ARISEN FROM THE SAME SOURCE IN THE MOST RECENT TIMES. THE MARTYRDOM OF PETER AND PAUL.

But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes. Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours, and when he had finally suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. Thus was he removed from the world, and went into the holy place, having proved himself a striking example of patience.