Discover the Faith

 I am posting this response on my blog. This is my rebuttal to comments made by my protestant friend in the challenge he made on his blog. He made all sorts of false and half-truth statements about what the Catholic Church Teaches. He accused the Church of teaching Salvation by Works, which it does not. I will be posting his comments with what the Church actually teaches. Point by point in a future post. He refuses to post the comments below unless I shorten it. I will not shorten the word of God. Below is my response that he will not post. I do admit that it is long but sometimes truth cannot be abridged. I have agreed to post a shorter version pointing to this blog. This was my response:In your challenge you indicated to me that we were sticking to the Protestant Bible alone. You have breached your own rules that you laid as the groundwork for this discussion. You have gone outside the BIble alone in this discussion and posted your views on what YOU THINK the Catholic Church Teaches. I am dissapointed that you have done this. You have also taken this to a different topic than I was discussing.I am going to stick to the scope of the discussion here but if you want to see my rebuttal to all the points you have made through the horses mouth which is the Catechism of the Catholic Church, go to my blog at www.discoverthefaith.wordpress.com. (I will try to finish it after I post this. It may take a day to finish.)

Let us look at Phil 2:12 ESV12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.14 Do all things without grumbling or questioning, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me.

Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.—————————————————————————These two passage show that salvation is an ongoing process not a one time event. The grace of God is working in us to reach that Goal of our faith.

24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29 For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.Paul isn’t saying that Jesus’s death and rising in glory were not enough but he is saying that by uniting his own sufferings, by picking up his own cross daily, he is able to draw on the merits of Christ’s death and resurrection. (Unabridged Christianity: Father Romero) The seven sacraments follow the same biblical concept.

In the past I have written about how God chooses to work through people and through material objects to convey his grace. He does not have to do it this way but he has chosen to do it. He healed blindness by applying mud to the eyes. He didn’t need have to do it this way, he chose to heal this way. He often uses material to transmit his graces. In this way he also uses the sacraments to transmit his Grace to us. It is through our Faith that they become effective. The Church teaches that these are the normative way that God chooses to work but that God is not bound by the sacraments.Now the biblical basis for each of the 7 sacraments of the Church.

1.)BaptismMatt 3:13-17: ESV

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, [2] and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, [3] with whom I am well pleased.”John 3:5,22

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing

Matt 28:19-20 ESV19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in [2] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”1 Peter 3:18-22 ESV18 For Christ also suffered

[2] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which [3] he went and proclaimed [4] to the spirits in prison, 20 because [5] they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.Titus 3:5-7 ESV5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

As you can see from these passages that Baptism is indeed a Sacrament of Faith. It is a gift from God. In fact in the Catholic Church infants are baptised. Baptism indeed does remove the “original sin” of Adam as well as any and all sin commited if administered as an adult. It is through Grace and Faith not of our own doing. It is a Sacrament of Faith. Jesus chose it to be administered this way. This is the normative way of entering salvation God is not bound to it as the Church teachs. By having an obedient faith I submit to the teaching of the Bible and The Church the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.2.) Penance:

[1] their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? 5 For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—”Rise, pick up your bed and go home.” 7 And he rose and went home. 8 When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men.2 Cor 5:17-2017 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. [2] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling [3] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Luke 15:11-3211 And he said, “There was a man who had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.’ And he divided his property between them. 13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. 14 And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to

[2] one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16 And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.”’ 20 And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ [3] 22 But the father said to his servants, [4] ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23 And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to celebrate.25 “Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.’ 28 But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, 29 but he answered his father, ‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’ 31 And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’” The Bible shows that authority was given to men to forgive and retain sins. This authority was passed on. All of us have some of the authority in forgiving tresspasses against us. The Apostles were commissioned to forgive and retain sins. Peter retained the Sin of Simony from Simon Magus. This is the authority of the successor of the Apostles. I am obedient to the word of God and in Faith I believe that confession is the normative way of forgiveness of sins especially those that fall into the Grave or Mortal sin. I also believe through the grace of God that he will stengthen me to withstand the temptations that may come my way but I still have the ‘CHOICE OR FREE WILL”. Confession is of no avail without FAITH. If you go into it with an insincere attitude and think that you can continue sinning intentionally then you have another thing coming. That is not what the Church teaches and is a distortion of reality. I have the assurance that I have been forgiven when I confess my sins to the priest through the Grace of God and the MERITS of Jesus Christ’s death and ressurection. God’s grace is communicated through this sacrament of faith.3.)Holy Eucharist:Mark 14:22-2522 And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the

[3] covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”Matthew 26:26-2826 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the [3] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.Luke 22:19-2019 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

[3] 1 Cor 11:23-3023 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for [5] you. Do this in remembrance of me.” [6] 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. [7] 31 But if we judged [8] ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined [9] so that we may not be condemned along with the world.33 So then, my brothers,

[10] when you come together to eat, wait for [11] one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. About the other things I will give directions when I come.John 6:4, 51-684Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand.

52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread [3] the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus [4] said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. 67 So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,

Rev 19:99 And the angel said [2] to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” Rev 5:1-6:1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, 4 and I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

With these passages you can see the clear command by Jesus to celebrate Eucharist, which means thanksgiving. As a Catholic I believe that this IS the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the view of the early Church as it is now. This is another gift of Christ to his Church. This is a Sacrament of Faith. If it was merely symbolic I wonder why many of his follower left him in verse 66 of Chapter 6 of the Book of John. A symbolic body and blood is not a hard teaching. Further why would you profane a symbol by eating in an unworth manner?The Eucharistic celebration has been considered a sacrifice since the beginning. I have included Rev 5:1-6 to help explain why. While Jesus Death on the Cross and resurrection was finished at Calvary, the effects of the sacrafice are outside of time. Jesus is still seen in Rev 5:1-6 as a lamb standing as though it had been slained. Jesus is the unblemished Lamb and he is continuing to offer himself as such to the Father as a perpetual sacrifice of praise to the Father.(Paraphrased Scott Hahn The Eucharist as The Lamb’s Supper talk)

Once again the Eucharist is a Sacrament of Faith. Through Faith this gift of God provides us with sanctifying grace that helps us grow and stengthen us in our Journey of Salvation. The concept is very Biblical.4.)Annointing of the Sick

Mark 6:1313 And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.

This sacrament holds a huge place in my heart. It is one of the reasons that I eventually returned by the Grace of God to the Church of Jesus Christ. To say that this sacrament is trying to work my way to salvation is an insult to Jesus, the Bible and the Church. This is purely a sacrament, a holy thing, a gift of God to his Church. It is not trying to work your way to heaven. It is a gift of Grace from God to his Church through faith. My Faith at that point was not at its highest. I was not a practicing catholic. But in my heart I knew that there was some faith however small to Christ and the gift of this sacrament.A little over 10 years ago, I had a pituatary tumor, which required two operations to remove the tumor. The first surgery was done through my nose through the nasal cavity. This surgery I did not recieve the give of the sacrament of healing. This surgery had several set backs, one included me returning to the hospital with some infection. It was the worst headache I have ever had. I was a mess.